archer75
Apr 25, 02:46 PM
I really don't think that the 6870 will be in the 27 inch version. The current card (5750) has a power draw of 86 watts. The 6870 has a draw of 151 watts. Too much heat.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5770,2446-15.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/325-amd-radeon-6870/page10.html
You're looking at the desktop cards. Imacs use laptop GPU's.
The 5750 in the current imac is actually a 5850m. A 6850m is actually slower than that. They will need a 6950m or 6970m to be an upgrade.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5770,2446-15.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/325-amd-radeon-6870/page10.html
You're looking at the desktop cards. Imacs use laptop GPU's.
The 5750 in the current imac is actually a 5850m. A 6850m is actually slower than that. They will need a 6950m or 6970m to be an upgrade.
PlipPlop
Apr 12, 08:47 AM
TB will only start to get popular when its released on Windows.
seanpholman
Mar 17, 01:00 PM
I think so coast got about 15 too. Rent a cop told us loiterers to leave
Same as yesterday Was it the older guy with the eye that looked the other way? A-holes.
--Sean
Same as yesterday Was it the older guy with the eye that looked the other way? A-holes.
--Sean
Moyank24
Apr 27, 02:32 AM
As long as my daughter is in there, I will have a say who goes in the bathroom. my daughter isn't a woman yet, she is a girl, and I will do whatever it takes to protect her. Like it or not, I think gender bending is wrong, and people like you will not be in the bathroom with her. When she is finished, it is all yours.
my views may not be popular in this thread, and I expected the regular insults that you libs dish out to people that disagree with you. If your afraid of dissenting opinions, then you need to stay on some of those forums that will always agree with you, and will nurture you, and your life style.
Maybe you should just keep your daughter out of public bathrooms. The reality is that she has already shared a public bathroom with a transgender person, a lesbian, a criminal, someone who is a different ethnicity than she is, etc....And apparently she is still whole.
Are you going to interrogate everyone who shares a bathroom with her? How do you know some deranged female serial killer isn't in there with her?
I can understand your need to protect your daughter, but your ignorance and prejudice will hurt her more than sharing a bathroom with a transgender will.
my views may not be popular in this thread, and I expected the regular insults that you libs dish out to people that disagree with you. If your afraid of dissenting opinions, then you need to stay on some of those forums that will always agree with you, and will nurture you, and your life style.
Maybe you should just keep your daughter out of public bathrooms. The reality is that she has already shared a public bathroom with a transgender person, a lesbian, a criminal, someone who is a different ethnicity than she is, etc....And apparently she is still whole.
Are you going to interrogate everyone who shares a bathroom with her? How do you know some deranged female serial killer isn't in there with her?
I can understand your need to protect your daughter, but your ignorance and prejudice will hurt her more than sharing a bathroom with a transgender will.
more...
RobertMartens
Apr 14, 09:13 AM
My $0.2
Hey you've paid 10x too much for your opinion, in my opinion.
Hey you've paid 10x too much for your opinion, in my opinion.
irbdavid
Jul 21, 11:24 AM
Afterall Apple does not want you to use Windows, it only wants you to believe you could run Windows if you had to, in order to ease switcher anxiety.
Actually they want to sell you the hardware, right? Apple calls itself a hardware company that makes a bit of software on the side, rather than software company that makes hardware to sell with it, doesn't it?
Actually they want to sell you the hardware, right? Apple calls itself a hardware company that makes a bit of software on the side, rather than software company that makes hardware to sell with it, doesn't it?
more...
einmusiker
Dec 31, 12:25 AM
No, I'm 100% right. Weight control is about calories. End of story. Calories in < Calories out and you lose weight. Opposite and you gain weight. There's no more or less here, that is the very basic premise. You want to discuss specifics that affect calories in/calories out, but that's flawed. Teach people the base first, and let them balance themselves out. You can very easily test your metabolic rate.
So you're saying these people have abnormally low "Calories out". It still comes down to that very simple equation. These people first have to fix their calories out, get their metabolism back straight, then they can fix their calories in.
It is that easy to lose weight. People don't know this very simple and basic concept, they think "Fat/Sugar" has to do with weight, which is completely false. "Low Saturated Fat!" on a box of cookies means squat if the cookies are 170 calories for 3 vs 180 calories for 3 of the same cookies with normal saturated fat. You still can't eat the whole box in one sitting and think "hey, it's low fat, I can't gain weight from this".
You'd be surprised how many people think this way.
People struggle because like someone pointed out, they lack willpower and I'll add that they lack education. Calorie control is the only way to lose weight. There's seriously no other way, since weight is based off of calories and calories alone. To lose weight, you need a calorie deficiency. To be more precise, 3500 calories = 1 lbs, each way. So you need to create a calorie deficiency of 3500 calories before you lose 1 lbs. My metabolic rate is around 1740, that's what I burn each day without lifting a finger. Add in my normal routine, and I'm around the magic 2000 calorie diet. Let's not add in my gym routine. So to lose 1 lbs in 7 days, I need to go on a 1500 calorie diet per day. That's going to give me a deficiency of 500 per day, times 7 days, 1 lbs lost.
There's entire industries because they profit from it. Some people like to buy "instant" solutions. 1 lbs in 7 days ? Bah humbug, too long, I have 100 to lose! There's no instant solutions to weight loss, quite the contrary, the entire weight loss industry makes money by keeping people fat and coming back for miracle cures. Their proposed plans of "1 shake/bar for breakfeast, same for lunch and a balanced diner" is awful. First, it should be the opposite, a good breakfeast and then their bars/shakes for lunch and diner. Breakfeast is where you get your day's energy. Second, that's not calorie control since it doesn't explain that it is trying to create a calorie deficit. So people just still overeat, they compensate the calories they didn't eat at breakfeast/lunch with a huge "balanced" diner.
I'm 32, work 35 hours per week in IT (sitting down on my ass), am on call with tons of pages coming in once every 2 weeks. I have a girlfriend, a mortgage and a dog.
Again, staying trim has nothing to do with having time or being busy or not. If you spend less calories, eat less calories. Balance your calories in to your calories out and you'll stay trim. Sure it means doing a bit more research into what you're eating, but that's not impossible. It also means listening to your body. Feeling "stuffed" means you overate. You should never feel full or stuffed. A donut is not faster to mow down than an Apple. It's not more filling either. It's tons more calories though.
You made an assumption about me and you were wrong. You should look at yourself and what you are or aren't doing that is making you fat, not make up excuses.
But again, it's just because you don't understand your caloric need for a day and you either overeat or eat just the right amount to maintain your weight. You don't even need to exercise to create a calorie deficiency. I think you're the perfect example of what I'm talking about, you don't understand the very basic concept, which has nothing to do with time spent, but rather food ingested.
People need to get it out of their heads that it is about exercise. It's 10% working out, 90% food. Get your nutrition right and you won't need to exercise a day in your life. If you want to get fit however, make sure to balance your nutrition around your added caloric need to not drop weight too fast or at all if your goal is maintaining.
ok, I'm sorry but how the hell do you know what I do or don't understand about nutrition?? your presumptions are offensive
So you're saying these people have abnormally low "Calories out". It still comes down to that very simple equation. These people first have to fix their calories out, get their metabolism back straight, then they can fix their calories in.
It is that easy to lose weight. People don't know this very simple and basic concept, they think "Fat/Sugar" has to do with weight, which is completely false. "Low Saturated Fat!" on a box of cookies means squat if the cookies are 170 calories for 3 vs 180 calories for 3 of the same cookies with normal saturated fat. You still can't eat the whole box in one sitting and think "hey, it's low fat, I can't gain weight from this".
You'd be surprised how many people think this way.
People struggle because like someone pointed out, they lack willpower and I'll add that they lack education. Calorie control is the only way to lose weight. There's seriously no other way, since weight is based off of calories and calories alone. To lose weight, you need a calorie deficiency. To be more precise, 3500 calories = 1 lbs, each way. So you need to create a calorie deficiency of 3500 calories before you lose 1 lbs. My metabolic rate is around 1740, that's what I burn each day without lifting a finger. Add in my normal routine, and I'm around the magic 2000 calorie diet. Let's not add in my gym routine. So to lose 1 lbs in 7 days, I need to go on a 1500 calorie diet per day. That's going to give me a deficiency of 500 per day, times 7 days, 1 lbs lost.
There's entire industries because they profit from it. Some people like to buy "instant" solutions. 1 lbs in 7 days ? Bah humbug, too long, I have 100 to lose! There's no instant solutions to weight loss, quite the contrary, the entire weight loss industry makes money by keeping people fat and coming back for miracle cures. Their proposed plans of "1 shake/bar for breakfeast, same for lunch and a balanced diner" is awful. First, it should be the opposite, a good breakfeast and then their bars/shakes for lunch and diner. Breakfeast is where you get your day's energy. Second, that's not calorie control since it doesn't explain that it is trying to create a calorie deficit. So people just still overeat, they compensate the calories they didn't eat at breakfeast/lunch with a huge "balanced" diner.
I'm 32, work 35 hours per week in IT (sitting down on my ass), am on call with tons of pages coming in once every 2 weeks. I have a girlfriend, a mortgage and a dog.
Again, staying trim has nothing to do with having time or being busy or not. If you spend less calories, eat less calories. Balance your calories in to your calories out and you'll stay trim. Sure it means doing a bit more research into what you're eating, but that's not impossible. It also means listening to your body. Feeling "stuffed" means you overate. You should never feel full or stuffed. A donut is not faster to mow down than an Apple. It's not more filling either. It's tons more calories though.
You made an assumption about me and you were wrong. You should look at yourself and what you are or aren't doing that is making you fat, not make up excuses.
But again, it's just because you don't understand your caloric need for a day and you either overeat or eat just the right amount to maintain your weight. You don't even need to exercise to create a calorie deficiency. I think you're the perfect example of what I'm talking about, you don't understand the very basic concept, which has nothing to do with time spent, but rather food ingested.
People need to get it out of their heads that it is about exercise. It's 10% working out, 90% food. Get your nutrition right and you won't need to exercise a day in your life. If you want to get fit however, make sure to balance your nutrition around your added caloric need to not drop weight too fast or at all if your goal is maintaining.
ok, I'm sorry but how the hell do you know what I do or don't understand about nutrition?? your presumptions are offensive
kirky29
Apr 28, 04:14 PM
So you actually get MORE iPhone in the white model.
intradestings
Lol! +1
intradestings
Lol! +1
more...
IJ Reilly
Jul 21, 11:33 AM
Pure sobbery, and imo, its ugly.
I'm sorry, I can't see you over the end of my nose. ;)
I'm sorry, I can't see you over the end of my nose. ;)
VirtualRain
Apr 1, 11:31 AM
http://chrismccormack.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v24/p190201870-4.jpg
more...
iphone3gs16gb
May 1, 10:34 PM
I thank our special forces for killing and capturing that arab scumbag.
The U.S. carried out its promise :)
Now I wonder who is next?
The President is addressing the American people!
The U.S. carried out its promise :)
Now I wonder who is next?
The President is addressing the American people!
diegous79
May 3, 08:43 AM
Not sure if anyone noticed this but while trying to price one, I noticed that the 21" model can't be maxed to 16gb as their page says.... :mad:
more...
Eidorian
Nov 3, 11:37 AM
I bought Parallels for $29 + tax after rebate
What rebate? Please elaborate.CompUSA was having a sale on Parallels.
$79 - 10 instant - $20 mail-in = $49
(I made a mistake on my rebate the fist time.)
What rebate? Please elaborate.CompUSA was having a sale on Parallels.
$79 - 10 instant - $20 mail-in = $49
(I made a mistake on my rebate the fist time.)
beany boy
Apr 14, 07:51 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8H7)
4.3.2 feels smoother to me. Take that with as many grains of sand as you like.
4.3.2 feels smoother to me. Take that with as many grains of sand as you like.
more...
Keebler
Dec 30, 03:45 PM
This will be a thread hand-grenade, but let's face it - depending on her/your/our healthcare situation, you kindof are paying for this. What we have here with this woman is a pending and unnatural liability on the healthcare system and insurance network due to her socially- and personally-irresponsible whim.
Who's paying for her bypass surgeries, ER trips, and specialized healthcare infrastructure in order to deal with a person of her size? We are. The cost to sustain her life will with all probablity be more than an average person's: so your premiums (or taxes, if you're in a socialized-medicine country) go up. I'm all for personal freedoms and not letting people tell others what to do with their bodies, but I don't want to subsidize stupid behavior like this. I say make her carry her own weight, and I mean that both literally and figuratively.
+1 it's a hand grenade that needs to be tossed. fantastic points.
Here's another one, but hopefully it isn't. It's a personal observation.
First, let me say that my own country, Canada, is not far behind so this isn't a 'my country is better than yours' situation.
Last year, I travelled to Myrtle Beach. On the way there, I was astounded at the amount of obese and out of shape people on the way down through all the states. I was once overweight so I have been there :( I couldn't believe that for every turnpike gas station, there were at least 3 or 4 fast food joints and/or donut shops. Add that to the economy issues and ppl don't have alot of choice to eat healthier foods which are more expensive. (of course, walking and running are free).
Later that night, I watched the news and this is when all the rage was about passing the healthcare bill. There was a debate about it.
one thought instantly came to mind: no wonder they wanted to pass it. With the number of overweight ppl, you're talking a potentially massive money maker (insurance and health care premiums). It's like making the cows fatter by only supplying them with fattening food or fattening situations then charge them for a heavier weight on the transport truck scale.
Now, those are my own observations so I'm not saying i'm right or wrong, but I think there's something to it. You may or may not agree or think i'm nuts, but I know what I saw, shocked me.
Again, it's nothing personal against anyone who was overweight b/c I was too. I've lost 25 lbs, which may not seem like a lot, but I'm also short and trust me, it's made a massive difference in my lifestyle in the most positive way :) I'm in better shape than I was in high school - which is sad really.
Who's paying for her bypass surgeries, ER trips, and specialized healthcare infrastructure in order to deal with a person of her size? We are. The cost to sustain her life will with all probablity be more than an average person's: so your premiums (or taxes, if you're in a socialized-medicine country) go up. I'm all for personal freedoms and not letting people tell others what to do with their bodies, but I don't want to subsidize stupid behavior like this. I say make her carry her own weight, and I mean that both literally and figuratively.
+1 it's a hand grenade that needs to be tossed. fantastic points.
Here's another one, but hopefully it isn't. It's a personal observation.
First, let me say that my own country, Canada, is not far behind so this isn't a 'my country is better than yours' situation.
Last year, I travelled to Myrtle Beach. On the way there, I was astounded at the amount of obese and out of shape people on the way down through all the states. I was once overweight so I have been there :( I couldn't believe that for every turnpike gas station, there were at least 3 or 4 fast food joints and/or donut shops. Add that to the economy issues and ppl don't have alot of choice to eat healthier foods which are more expensive. (of course, walking and running are free).
Later that night, I watched the news and this is when all the rage was about passing the healthcare bill. There was a debate about it.
one thought instantly came to mind: no wonder they wanted to pass it. With the number of overweight ppl, you're talking a potentially massive money maker (insurance and health care premiums). It's like making the cows fatter by only supplying them with fattening food or fattening situations then charge them for a heavier weight on the transport truck scale.
Now, those are my own observations so I'm not saying i'm right or wrong, but I think there's something to it. You may or may not agree or think i'm nuts, but I know what I saw, shocked me.
Again, it's nothing personal against anyone who was overweight b/c I was too. I've lost 25 lbs, which may not seem like a lot, but I'm also short and trust me, it's made a massive difference in my lifestyle in the most positive way :) I'm in better shape than I was in high school - which is sad really.
ender land
Apr 24, 12:16 AM
The problem with situations like this is that it's not the ones which go right (ie the victim gets saved by employees) which dictate the policy, it's the ones which go bad and end up in a lawsuit or something similarly bad for the company which do.
more...
blondepianist
Mar 31, 11:59 AM
Yay - I see a full-screen button! Since I give most of my programs their own Spaces, this will be very nice.
Paul Graham
Jan 31, 11:17 AM
New battey grips for both of my dslr's, And two new bags, Well the Nikon bag is new but the Pullman is a well looked afer bag I had from years ago.
New iphone dock in background...
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs077.snc6/168765_10150186662899465_529484464_8735685_7598213_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs896.ash1/180479_10150186663029465_529484464_8735687_6495675_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs016.snc6/166607_10150186663279465_529484464_8735689_6154121_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs897.ash1/180513_10150186663489465_529484464_8735692_4140189_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs270.snc6/179801_10150186663924465_529484464_8735697_5732440_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs050.snc6/168040_10150186664159465_529484464_8735699_4677229_n.jpg
New iphone dock in background...
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs077.snc6/168765_10150186662899465_529484464_8735685_7598213_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs896.ash1/180479_10150186663029465_529484464_8735687_6495675_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs016.snc6/166607_10150186663279465_529484464_8735689_6154121_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs897.ash1/180513_10150186663489465_529484464_8735692_4140189_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs270.snc6/179801_10150186663924465_529484464_8735697_5732440_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs050.snc6/168040_10150186664159465_529484464_8735699_4677229_n.jpg
RacerX
Dec 2, 10:31 AM
Funny thing is that I don't see anyone in this forum going into hysteria about this other than the people saying that "this is a load of FUD." Why is it such a shock that MacOSX can be vulnerable?It isn't a shock that Mac OS X is vulnerable. What is shocking is that it is front page news to people.
Why is this even note worthy? Why is this even NEWS WORTHY?
Why cover what are (to most Mac users) non-issues? More importantly, why aid the PC press in making cracking a Mac a limelight subject?
Misery may love company, but do we really need to add to the frenzied coverage that this subject currently has?
And oddly (or maybe not), the people most likely to fall for the hype on all this are former PC users who (wrongly) believe that any level of malicious software is equivalent to what ever the current level is for Windows (where malicious software is actually a profession).
You aren't a former (current) PC user, are you longofest? It would explain a lot.
No, it hasn't been exploited to any large extent, but vulnerabilities open up the door to exploits, and the only thing that is keeping us away from having exploits happen is our market share. You may not want to hear that, but as long as we are below 10% of the market, people simply aren't going to target our vulnerabilities, but are going to target MS's vulnerabilities.
Why is this even note worthy? Why is this even NEWS WORTHY?
Why cover what are (to most Mac users) non-issues? More importantly, why aid the PC press in making cracking a Mac a limelight subject?
Misery may love company, but do we really need to add to the frenzied coverage that this subject currently has?
And oddly (or maybe not), the people most likely to fall for the hype on all this are former PC users who (wrongly) believe that any level of malicious software is equivalent to what ever the current level is for Windows (where malicious software is actually a profession).
You aren't a former (current) PC user, are you longofest? It would explain a lot.
No, it hasn't been exploited to any large extent, but vulnerabilities open up the door to exploits, and the only thing that is keeping us away from having exploits happen is our market share. You may not want to hear that, but as long as we are below 10% of the market, people simply aren't going to target our vulnerabilities, but are going to target MS's vulnerabilities.
johneaston
May 2, 03:40 AM
Because they have to bury him within 24 hours
Why?
Why?
dgree03
Apr 28, 12:08 PM
Silly how? iPhone is a hardware and Android is an OS. This is apple v.s. meat. It's not even fruit v.s. fruit :rolleyes:
Since you are talking about "sale". Can you list any Androids device that outsell the iPhone?
---->>>>>>> Buy one get one free --> only 1 device make money, the second is free. So, for 100 Androids devices got on the customers' hand, only 50 of them are "sold".
No in bogo they BOTH make money. Verizon, Att, Tmobile and Sprint have already paid retail for the phone before customers recieve the contract price. Apple, Samsung, HTC etc have already made their money. Telcos now have to make their money over time with the contract.
So Bogo makes them money also.
Since you are talking about "sale". Can you list any Androids device that outsell the iPhone?
---->>>>>>> Buy one get one free --> only 1 device make money, the second is free. So, for 100 Androids devices got on the customers' hand, only 50 of them are "sold".
No in bogo they BOTH make money. Verizon, Att, Tmobile and Sprint have already paid retail for the phone before customers recieve the contract price. Apple, Samsung, HTC etc have already made their money. Telcos now have to make their money over time with the contract.
So Bogo makes them money also.
shen
Jul 21, 10:44 PM
Apple produces very high quality machines and that's always going to ding them (ironically) in terms of market share as people will buy new machines less often and because loads of people aren't picking up bargain Macs at Wal-Mart. I know lots of Windows users and they buy new PCs on average every two years. I buy a new Mac on average every 5 years and most Mac users I know do the same. Market share is just meaningless, even when it's positive news.
Besides, Apple deals in the kind of quality that will keep it around for many, many years, regardless of which way its market share is going and that's all that I care about.
it is still odd to me using a Mac after so many years running windows networks and running linux and BSD. i used to upgrade at least parts, and generally whole machines every 14-20 months. now i have a G3 ibook, and it is fast approaching 4 years old, and i have no plans to upgrade for at least 9 months to a year.
when you can buy the low end entry level notebook and get great performance for 3-5 years, why would you upgrade?
....thanks apple!
Besides, Apple deals in the kind of quality that will keep it around for many, many years, regardless of which way its market share is going and that's all that I care about.
it is still odd to me using a Mac after so many years running windows networks and running linux and BSD. i used to upgrade at least parts, and generally whole machines every 14-20 months. now i have a G3 ibook, and it is fast approaching 4 years old, and i have no plans to upgrade for at least 9 months to a year.
when you can buy the low end entry level notebook and get great performance for 3-5 years, why would you upgrade?
....thanks apple!
h0mi
Apr 29, 09:25 PM
Amazon also expanded their $5 album selection to about a thousand instead of the usual hundred. But I think that is just for this week.
My only beef with their mp3s is the category chosen in the mp3 tags. I bought some Christmas music that was tagged as miscellaneous not Christmas... That is annoying.
My only beef with their mp3s is the category chosen in the mp3 tags. I bought some Christmas music that was tagged as miscellaneous not Christmas... That is annoying.
trule
Jan 30, 02:18 AM
Chartists come to absurd conclusions, such as AAPL having support at 60. This means a trailing P/E based on current earnings (without growth) of around 15. At 40, we're talking a P/E of ten. This assumes that AAPL's growth days are over, as of now. Does anything we know about the company, including its historical growth and product offerings comport with the idea of Apple turning into Dow Chemical? I don't think so.
PE's historically range between 7(bear lows) and 18 (bull highs) so 10 would be about the point where the weekly P&F chart (54) turns bearish.
However you must consider that AAPL is 100% discretionary consumer spending so when recession hits consumers will cut back in favour of things like food and oil. Want another negative, here is one, 18 billion in cash...held in a fast depreciating currency (lost half its value over the past 6 years). Or how about this, DRM free music, sure to result in more file sharing and less iTunes sales. And on the topic of iTunes, another negative, all that new competition...one of them is sure to break the AAPL hold on that market.
That weekly P&F chart is the worst I have seen in the past 5 years :eek:
PE's historically range between 7(bear lows) and 18 (bull highs) so 10 would be about the point where the weekly P&F chart (54) turns bearish.
However you must consider that AAPL is 100% discretionary consumer spending so when recession hits consumers will cut back in favour of things like food and oil. Want another negative, here is one, 18 billion in cash...held in a fast depreciating currency (lost half its value over the past 6 years). Or how about this, DRM free music, sure to result in more file sharing and less iTunes sales. And on the topic of iTunes, another negative, all that new competition...one of them is sure to break the AAPL hold on that market.
That weekly P&F chart is the worst I have seen in the past 5 years :eek:
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